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User talk:Bluerock
Hi, welcome to the Metal Gear Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Metal Gear Acid page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Fantomas (Talk) 14:29, September 30, 2009 RE: Deleted 'liquid snake' image? (File:Mgs-liquid-snake-concept.jpg) I didn't know the designs were recycled for Ghost Babel, I just thought the image was flat out from Ghost Babel (it's one of the few Metal Gear games I've never played). Apologies. I thought the image had been uploaded previously, but I can't seem to find it right now. Go ahead and upload again if you want to. --Fantomas 22:33, November 8, 2009 (UTC) RE: Zanzibar Land Article Well, that's going to be slightly difficult. I mean, it's one thing to mention the nations/territories of Metal Gear (Solid) as well as events in that timeline, it's quite another to make an article related to the stuff that I inserted into the Zanzibar Land article. Besides which, I once tried to insert personnel in regards to the San Hieronymo Base and make an article out of it, but it didn't quite work out so well. Weedle McHairybug 00:13, November 9, 2009 (UTC) About your source involving how Snake arrived in Zanzibar Land... Does your source, by any chance, also have a translated version of the original Metal Gear MSX manuel? I think that it might also have a bit more explainations as to how Snake had entered Outer Heaven. I mean, the only thing we saw of him in regards to his infiltration was swimming up to the Outer Heaven port and getting onto it, and there definitely is more than just having swum all the way to that location. Weedle McHairybug 03:08, November 9, 2009 (UTC) Thanks Just wanted to stop by and say thanks for all your edits. Frequent users have come and gone over the past four years, and it can be a little daunting when it gets to the point where it's just me against the wave of silly little edits from unregistered users, users who only stop by every now and then and spammers. You and Weedle McHairybug have been a big help posting things I hadn't even thought about these past couple of days and I really appreciate it! --Fantomas 19:21, November 9, 2009 (UTC) Question about the Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake translated manual link you used as a source. Ok, under the Special Task Force Contents section in the Metal Gear 2 Manual, a single unit of the Special Task Forces division (or legion, as the manual labelled it as) was apparently composed of seven fully-equiped Metal Gear D's, three Metal Gear Gustavs, at least eight infantry platoons with one commander, and two trucks, and apparantly are divided up into an Assisstance Scout company, a Supply Unit, and a Caterer Unit. I know what Assisstance Scouts are, as well as Supply Units, but I don't know what Caterer units are. I mean, I looked the word Caterer on Wikipedia, and it just redirects me to "catering", as in, making cakes and pies. Weedle McHairybug 23:02, November 9, 2009 (UTC) Hey! Hi! I was just wondering what was the first Mg experience you ever had and how old were you? If you want to know what mine was, I was 4 and I watched my Dad play MGS1 on PS. It changed my life forever! I am youthful By the way, why is MGS not popular with young kids like me? I am 11 and the youngest person I know that enjoys MGS is in his mid-twenties! By the way,do you like my sig???--I hear it's amazing when the purple worm from flapjaw space with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari Rock. I need scissors! 61! Metalgearboy 18:58, November 10, 2009 (UTC) Yeah. I guess it is mature Ya. I suppose it's quite mature. Especially in some of the MGS3 R1 cutscenes with EVA... Lol. By the way, is it just me, or is Ocelot the main bad guy in MGS, I mean, he's been in all of them. And to think he's the boss' son... --I hear it's amazing when the purple worm from flapjaw space with the tuning fork, does a raw blink on Hari-Kari Rock. I need scissors! 61! Metalgearboy 19:13, November 10, 2009 (UTC) Best boss Hey dude. Sorry to bug you again, but what is your fave MGS boss? Mine are Psycho Mantis, The End and The Boss. P.S- The Boss made me and my 4 year old sis cry. Waaahhhhh.... PPS - My sister watched at her own will, I told her to go away. So funny! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Of-ldGKbc0&feature=related Search this in web. LOLOLOLOLOLOL What is this? Also, response to your statement about the retcon of Big Boss serving the GSG 9 and SAS. Ok, in Metal Gear Solid/Twin Snakes, this exchange is made between Liquid Snake and Solid Snake is made: Snake: So then... the so-called Gulf War babies that have been reported by Gulf War veterans were... Liquid: Yes. they, too, are our brothers and sisters. Can you explain to me exactly what Snake meant by "the so-called Gulf War babies that have been reported by Gulf War veterans?" I'm asking because I tried to find out on Wikipedia and other places about what they are, but I haven't come up with anything. I even posted the question on Youtube, but no one responded. On a unrelated note, there may be a chance that he did serve the SAS if both the American units and the SAS participated in a battle together or a mission together. I mean, Major Zero, a SAS member, was serving under the US Government as well. Also, in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, one of the members of NEST was a SAS officer. I don't know about the GSG 9, however. Weedle McHairybug 00:32, November 11, 2009 (UTC) RE: References Yes. Do it. We were really bad about including them when we started (me and Selo, who founded this wiki, had never really edited wikis before starting here), so there are naturally tons of paces that require them but don't have them. --Fantomas 23:44, November 16, 2009 (UTC) RE: Hey, Weedle. I guess it was a mistake in memory. My mistake. Weedle McHairybug 22:13, November 25, 2009 (UTC) RE: FOXHOUND gear Well, I might have misinterpreted the reason. Well, whatever the case, I already created the link, and I don't want to end up dragging on the article to such a length that viewers of this wikia might not be able to handle. As for the question of the Chameleon suit, I actually don't know. I was initially thinking of doing a reword of the description of how the Metal Gear 2, Solid Snake manual translation on MSX2net, but the last few times I tried to do it, it ended up becoming very sloppy (which I think was the primary reason why you edited it after I took a stab at both FOXHOUND and Zanzibar Fortress's creation.), so I haven't decided which direction to do it in. Plus, I'm a bit rusty on creating tables, so I might need to review my notes from Senior Year. Weedle McHairybug 19:42, November 29, 2009 (UTC) RE: Well, the only reason I ended up becoming an unregistered creator of the Zanzibar Fortress Article was because I was timed out before I was able to submit it (believe me, trying to balance having Thanksgiving Dinner with family, getting sources for college assignments, working on at least one college assignment, looking up MSX.net and actually creating the article under a limited log-on time limit without a remember me option is not as easy as it looks.). BTW, it's ok for you to look at it when I'm finished. PS Thanks for uploading those images on Zanzibar Fortress. I wasn't quite sure where to find those pics, especially since I'm still a novice at actually uploading images on Wikis. Weedle McHairybug 20:06, November 29, 2009 (UTC) Question about units in Portable Ops... Ok, I just wanted to know something about units in Portable Ops. For starters, I just wanted to know exactly what are those russian/red army soldiers with the brown/green outfits and ski-masks? I mean, I've heard that they were called LYNXes, but I looked that class on wikipedia, and they don't have any information on them (They did have an article relating to the animal, as well as the military vehicles and weapons, but not the class of soldier). Weedle McHairybug 01:33, December 3, 2009 (UTC) RE: RE: Lynx. Ah, ok. It's a bit strange that Wikipedia doesn't have an article on that particular class of soldier. Weedle McHairybug 02:03, December 3, 2009 (UTC) Oh... Well, I guess I was going by the outdated translation, then, as the way the MSX2 version was translated made it seem as though she actually was getting married (Snake mentioned something about getting Dr. Madnar back to Russia "in time for Ellen's wedding." or something like that.). Thanks for helping me realizing it. Weedle McHairybug 21:01, December 5, 2009 (UTC) Hey, Bluerock? I'm having a bit of disagreement with a certain user about something... It relates to EVA. I'm trying to defend the stance that she knew that Liquid Ocelot really wasn't what he seemed to be (If she didn't, how can she even be able to plan the insurrection with "Liquid Ocelot" to begin with? ...which is what the article implied at least.), but this user is claiming she never knew that Liquid Ocelot was never really possessed by Liquid, that it was all an act. His IP address starts with "70", and we decided (or at least, I decided) that we should take it over to either you or Fantomas. If you have the time, can you help mediate the debate? I don't wish to carry on an edit war on EVA's page, but I can't just let him add that piece in if it turns out to be incorrect (I know the official strategy guide said she didn't know, but even the official guides can be wrong sometimes, especially if things in-game contradict it.). Hence why I am turning to you. Fantomas and the user are basically in hate mode in regards to editing, so I was hoping I'd turn to you at least, seeing how you managed to dig up info about things not known before (like how Snake was inserted into Zanzibar Land, for example.). Weedle McHairybug 21:31, December 8, 2009 (UTC) RE: RE: EVA Ok, but the way the article worded her part on the insurrection (IE, "her planning with Ocelot for "liquid's" insurrection") implied that she was fully aware that Ocelot was faking his being possessed by Liquid. Well, might as well put it back in, as well as remove that tidbit about how she arranged with Ocelot for "Liquid's" insurrection. Weedle McHairybug 20:42, December 9, 2009 (UTC) EDIT: Here's the specific line in the article that I'm referring to: "In addition, she planned "Liquid's" insurrection from the beginning, together with Naomi and Ocelot himself, as part of their plan to destroy the Patriots' system once and for all and revive Big Boss. " See, if she didn't know that Ocelot was actually faking his being possessed by Liquid, I don't think that this would have been stated (How can she "plan" Liquid's insurrection from the start if she didn't even know that Ocelot was faking possession?) Weedle McHairybug 20:53, December 9, 2009 (UTC) What a fan edited in a wiki is not supposed to be considered proof. Fix the article if it makes you feel better. -- 20:57, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :I just did. Now, if Bluerock or Fantomas or whatever edits it back in, gives good reasons for keeping it in, and the source about the whole issue about the prima guide doesn't sway them, then we don't try to edit it out, or if we have to place it somewhere, then at least the trivia section. Deal? Weedle McHairybug 21:01, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :Of course! -- 21:03, December 9, 2009 (UTC) About the My Home portion of the page... Is there a reason why it's glitching up all of a sudden? Weedle McHairybug 19:24, December 10, 2009 (UTC) Hi. I'd like to know a few things. First of all, have you played any of the Metal Gear Ac!d games? If not, do you know anyone on here who has played them? I'm asking because I'm trying to do research on the unlockable characters that can be recruited (IE, EVA, Sokolov, Raikov, Teliko, Venus), and while I am willing to do any missions that deal with EVA, Raikov, and Sokolov. Maybe even Ocelot if there is a unique spy report as well, I am not willing to do the Teliko and/or Venus missions as that would mean having to get the Metal Gear Ac!d games they are required to even unlock those reports in the first place.. So, anyways, I wanted to research them for the scripts so that I can either submit them to a script on GameFAQS, or at the very least make my own Script on the spy missions on GameFAQS. If you have the Ac!d games, as well as Portable Ops, you could help give me a script on the Teliko and Venus Missions (The things I need are the stage selection script, the pre-mission script, and, if such a script is available, the script available after recruiting Teliko and/or Venus. The end mission script works as well.). You don't have to if you don't want to, but it would be highly appreciated if you do. Weedle McHairybug 17:17, December 26, 2009 (UTC) :I have played both Ac!d games and have unlocked Teliko and Venus. However, I would only be able to access the report scripts by playing the game through again, starting from scratch. So I'm afraid I can't help you right now. Try searching on youtube if you haven't already, I'll tell you if I find anything. -- Bluerock 17:27, December 26, 2009 (UTC) ::Well, I took your advice, and I searched youtube. Unfortunately, the searches didn't turn up with anything. They did show the spy reports (which I didn't really need, anyways, as those I can easily access) and the Passcodes. Of course, I'm not really surprised at the turnout, seeing how the last time I tried doing something like that (the Raikov mission), it had a similar failure. Weedle McHairybug 17:34, December 26, 2009 (UTC) RE: Metal Gear VRC-4 Ah, I see. it just seemed like they were talking about Metal Gear 2, seeing how it was given a different article and all. I wonder why that article was created, anyways? Weedle McHairybug 21:23, January 1, 2010 (UTC) Trivia on Big Boss... I based that trivia off of the statement on Solid Snake's article that the "true brains behind the Patriots were Major Zero and Big Boss". I'll try and remove it as soon as the whole mess that that IP user created is undone by unprotecting the page. Weedle McHairybug 12:47, January 2, 2010 (UTC) No Only that he was a member in 1964. Portable Ops suggests that he was a member as early as 1961. --SyphonFilter1987 21:42, January 3, 2010 (UTC) Ladder Oh, it gets better, he even cited a site that claimed that this ladder was actually a boss in that same article. Heck, most of the info on that article, if not all of it, was from that website. Weedle McHairybug 14:21, January 8, 2010 (UTC) RE: Unnamed family If you guys feel it should stay then so be it. It just seems really redundant to put "Un-named Father" in my opinion. --Fantomas 15:14, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :Yes, the second one is what I meant. Over half of the characters have unknown family members, we only list Otacon's because he mentions them, but we still know virtually nothing about them. --Fantomas 15:22, January 8, 2010 (UTC) Hey, Bluerock I was wondering if you could help trim down the San Hieronymo Takeover article. Prior to becoming a registered user, I had contributed a lot to the article in regards to the plotline, which was extremely shallow. However, I kinda took it to the opposite side of extreme and made it too detailed. Fantomas managed to summarize some parts of the article, but he took a long break. I'd do it myself, but I kinda have a hard time trying to summarize, as I view all details as being absolutely vital. If you're willing to, great. If not, well, your choice. Weedle McHairybug 16:18, January 10, 2010 (UTC) :I will see what I can do when I have the time. I'll try and keep the important plot points in there, while any info relating to specific characters and their development can probably be removed since they will probably already have been noted in their respective articles. Bluerock 17:02, January 10, 2010 (UTC) RE: Metal Gear REX's Blueprints Done and Done. It's strange though, I thought that that was the same thing as mass-production. Guess not. Weedle McHairybug 13:52, January 19, 2010 (UTC) Nastasha mentioned a novel and drink called Stinger? News to me. I called her many times and she never mentioned that. Maybe she mentioned that in Twin Snakes. When I called her, I had the Stinger equipped but she just talked about what it does. Image categories Hey Bluerock, awesome job on categorizing the images. I know how it is to do this, but your work is greatly appreciated.--Richardtalk 00:56, February 4, 2010 (UTC) Wait, that was supposed to be Gray Fox's bandana? I watched the videos of the fight on Youtube, and it certainly seemed like his hair was orange, rather than it merely being a red bandana. Sorry, it just seemed hard to tell. I looked on the Wiki image on Wikipedia, and now I can definitely see that it was meant to be a bandana. My mistake. Weedle McHairybug 23:29, February 12, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, 8-bit sprites are not terribly clear to begin with. Funnily, his sprite actually had black hair in the first Metal Gear, when Snake rescues him. --Bluerock 23:41, February 12, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm guessing that his hair was black due to the fact that his sprite was a palette swap of the Hostages, seeing how, other than the fact that his clothes color was blue instead of brown, he looked exactly like them. Gray Fox's artwork actually showed his hair as being far from black (The only one of the characters who actually had black hair in the picture was Ellen Madnar.). Weedle McHairybug 23:47, February 12, 2010 (UTC) So, Psycho Mantis was using stealth? Well, that's strange. The way he was talking made it seem as though that he was cloaking himself via Psychokinesis/ESP. Snake: Optic Camouflage, huh? I hope that isn't your only trick. Psycho Mantis: You! You doubt my power?! Now I will show you why I am the most powerful practitioner of psychokinesis and telepathy in the world. No... there's no need for words, Snake. (apparates) I am... Psycho Mantis. That's right. This is no trick. It's true power. Weedle McHairybug 19:34, February 20, 2010 (UTC) "Outer Heaven Uprising "Outer Heaven's true nature was revealed in 1995 when it was discovered that the company had developed a nuclear-equipped bipedal tank. Alarmed by its capability to produce weapons of mass destruction, the US dispatched Special Forces Unit FOXHOUND to investigate. FOXHOUND sent in its best soldier, Gray Fox, followed by new recruit Solid Snake. The mission was code-named Operation Intrude N313. Several days after FOXHOUND was dispatched, Outer Heaven was destroyed in an inexplicable earthquake that struck the area. This series of events is known as the Outer Heaven Uprising. Solid Snake left FOXHOUND following the end of his mission." http://natmal.net/mgsdb/?enc&id=395 I think the airstrikes happened several minutes after the self destruct sequence destroyed the fortress. I guess Nato bombed the residential areas of Outer Heaven. Snake didn't know about the bombings so it had to have happened after he left the area. :Hmm, perhaps they mean after Gray Fox was dispatched to Outer Heaven, since they just say FOXHOUND? They say the earthquake occurred as Metal Gear was destroyed so I believe this is what they actually meant. It's funny that the database mentions nothing of Outer Heaven's self-destruction, despite being mentioned in MGS1's previous operations, so perhaps this has been retconned from existence, but I guess we can't be sure. --Bluerock 21:56, February 24, 2010 (UTC) You said that Big Boss was stated in official documents pertaining to Metal Gear Solid to be in his 70s when defeated, right? Well, can you supply a link or even a source to these "documents" that stated that Big Boss was in his seventies when he was defeated in 1999? I only found one so-called "official" document pertaining to MGS1 era Big Boss (which is this: http://guidesarchive.ign.com/guides/569/images/big_boss.jpg, but it doesn't mention anything about Big Boss being killed in his seventies (In fact, the only reference to the number 70 in this document is the line "Fought as a mercenary around the world in 70's", in which that was actually referencing the era, and not his actual age. Weedle McHairybug 02:27, February 25, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, I undid the change on Mi-24 entry after you noticed. Fair enough, I noticed the message and undid my changes after you noticed. RE: My logic on how the nuclear strike. The text limit for edit summaries was too short, but what I was trying to state was that not doing the Nuclear Strike would have actually exposed the Patriots existance, especially seeing how most of the hostages on Shadow Moses Island would most likely have known about REX (the hostages were involved in the REX project), as well as there being some data on REX existing (Otacon was able to tell Snake what REX was capable of from Baker's files.), including the people within the DIA involved. That's why the Patriots, who wanted their existance to remain anonymous to the entire population, even going as far as to modify nanomachines to avoid using the word "patriot" and replacing it with "la li lu le lo," would even recind the air-strike orders (In fact, knowing that the Patriots can alter events in History, long before the Manhattan Incident, given what Johnson stated to Raiden, a Nuclear Strike, along with a convenient coverstory, would most likely be something that they would do.). Plus, there's also the fact that REX would have been a pretty big threat if it managed to somehow get repaired. Anyways, that's how I saw it. Just seemed... sorry to seem Vulcan-ish, but... Illogical for them to do that. Weedle McHairybug 20:28, April 28, 2010 (UTC) :Ah, I see the confusion that could stem from this. The quote I added indicates that the Patriots stopped the strike for the very reason that they wouldn't be able to do a full cover-up, despite Houseman saying he had a "convincing cover story." It seems that the launch of the bombers didn't go unnoticed, so saying that the terrorists detonated a nuclear explosion shortly afterwards might sound a bit suspicious. That's my guess anyway. --Bluerock 20:53, April 28, 2010 (UTC) So, when are you going to finish up with the San Hieronymo locations? I mean, the last time any progress in changing was in Research Lab just about a few days ago. Weedle McHairybug 00:09, April 30, 2010 (UTC) :Don't worry, I'll get round to it. --Bluerock 05:50, April 30, 2010 (UTC) Question about Trucks in Portable Ops Hi. I was wondering about the Trucks in Portable Ops. What exactly are those trucks? I don't know which exact make they are. Weedle McHairybug 01:47, May 14, 2010 (UTC) RE: quotes That, and if they hadn't been added above the infobox. I personally don't like them at all, I think they look really tacky. But if people want them so badly they should at least be implemented correctly, yes. --Fantomas 10:05, May 22, 2010 (UTC) :I personally don't care. It's Spirit Slasher that keeps including the quotes in the character pages. The only thing that I do is fix them. - Marcaurelix ::Yeah, I'm not mad on them. Also, Bluerock to answer your questions about Japanese names: we had a guy come along who was incredibly adament that we include them, even though we all thought it was pretty pointless. I'm not sure why. --Fantomas 17:36, May 22, 2010 (UTC) RE:Johnson Obviously when someone hears "Mr. President" they're going to assume that he's referring to the actual US President, and given the statements position in the story the player's mind is likely going to jump to the similar conversation at the end of MGS1. I think it's an intentional "red herring" to confuse the player. It has no answer, and it likely never will. The Patriots are indeed one of the most obvious choices, but that doesn't rule out Johnson. We'll never know. It's one of the more minor parts of the Metal Gear Saga, so I wouldn't bother worrying about it. --Fantomas 22:46, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :Then can we leave a statement (trivia statement) in Johnson's page explaining that it is unknown who Ocelot was talking to on the phone? - Marcaurelix ::No. It would be better suited for Ocelot's page. --Fantomas 22:53, May 26, 2010 (UTC) :::Fair enough - Marcaurelix :Since it was implied to the player to be the US President, then it should at least be mentioned on his page, if only to say that it was never actually revealed. Just disregarding any mention of the scene makes Johnson's article seem incomplete, but whatever. Anyway, minor facts are mentioned all the time in trivia sections, along with things that have never been revealed and remain unknown in the games. --Bluerock 07:32, May 27, 2010 (UTC) ::Come to think of it, Ocelot does refer to Johnson directly as "Mr. President", just after shooting him during the Big Shell Incident, strengthening the argument that "Mr. President" is used as a title for the US President by Ocelot in-game. The title is never used to refer to anybody else. Probably not enough to satisfy everyone but just saying. --19:02, May 27, 2010 (UTC) RE: Metal Gear Acid Do what you feel needs to be done. I leave it in your hands. --Fantomas 22:48, May 28, 2010 (UTC) Hey, man, theres a new page I created, and I need help on it. can you help me by fixing it the same way you fixed the Successor Project page? Note for "Metal Gear Solid: The Uprising You see, there was a convention in Las Vegas a few months ago, and I watched it online a few days ago, and they said that there was a book about Naked Snake (Aka Big Boss) about how he got the plans that led him to sent his "Miltiaries San Frontieres" into a large military base in the bowels of Hamburg, Germany, Where Gene plans to destroy the United States witrh a Plutonium Bomb from their new Metal Gear. Hideo Kojima, however, doesn't know if it is set to come out in 2012, but he there there was a possibility. See? I heard it from Hideo Kojima, and he doesn't lie. Edit: Oh, Shit. I just found out: They're f-ing liers. I looked online, and there was no link to it. in fact, I think Hideo IS a lier, because I just looked online for the source, and the Metal Gear Solid website said: "Sorry, we don't have an article about that." I guess we can delete that article, that is, if we can. Edit: I agree. but you know, sometimes, enemies in previous games come back to life in later games: Like Liquid, from MGS1, (only through an arm transplant from Ocelolt, of course), and Vamp from MGS2, he came back to help Liquid Ocelot steal the SOP system; and lets not forgert Psycho Mantis and the Sorrow from MGS1 and MGS3, coming to talk to Snake in MGS4. However, Like I said, they are liars, because I could not find an article stating that, so you're right. Is there any way to delete the plage, since it is useless now. Gameplay For Peace Walker Hey, I just got MGS: PW yesterday, and let me tell you, the gameplay kinda sucks. Although, some elements from MGS3 is in it; like the camo thing, where you can disguise yourself from the enemy. And, you know, Paz, she's voiced by Tara Strong, the same women that voiced Elisa and Ursula in MGS: PO and Steven as Galvez, who voiced Gene in MGS: PO. Also, just like MGS3, (Although, you have to beat the game once to get this) you get the fork to find and kill animals to use them as food and traps. So, out of a 10, I give this game a 8.5, so you guys should try it. Gene Force 21:17, June 9, 2010 (UTC) :Unfortunately, I've gotta wait over a week until its released over here in the UK (I can't be bothered to import). I didn't really care for the controls myself, in the demo at least. I don't see why they couldn't have used the top down view, like the old games, since having just one control stick on the PSP is a real pain. --Bluerock 21:33, June 9, 2010 (UTC) : : : oh, by the way, Bluerock, did you know that there are 3 different types of Metal Gears in this game, and one of them looks similar to Volgin's Shagohod? I think they called it "Pupa". Gene Force 21:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC) : No but They STILL DIE after six minutes. They don't magically wake up and walk away. They no longer have their suits. Those suits are what kept them alive. God, you're dense. Continue to believe that they survived and lived happily ever after if it makes you feel better. 18:25, June 16, 2010 (UTC) :The way the page is worded now (and the way Bluerock was editing it) still suggests their deaths as a "likely possibility", just as the game showed us. This should be sufficient, and I don't see what the problem is here. Grow up. --Fantomas 18:28, June 16, 2010 (UTC)